Sandra Day O'Connor
Thank you very much former Vice President Dan Quayle for sitting down at the O'Connor House with me today to talk a little bit about your life and experiences. Thank you for doing that.
Dan Quayle
Well, it's my honor, Your Honor.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Okay. There's never been another Arizona person who served or was even considered for Vice President of the United States, was there?
Dan Quayle
No one that served, that's for sure.
Sandra Day O'Connor
And no one, was anyone considered, to your knowledge?
Dan Quayle
Oh, I'm sure they're on lists.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, but not seriously.
Dan Quayle
Probably not that seriously. Although I think Senator Kyl was somewhat considered by 43, as we affectionately call him, George W. Bush. I think he was on the shortlist. I've had a number of conversations with him, and I asked him about the interrogation. And when he started going through all the questions they were asking, I said, "You were on the shortlist."
Sandra Day O'Connor
How about that? Well, it had to be an incredible experience to serve as vice president. Looking back, are you pleased that you did it? And was that a very special time?
Dan Quayle
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, every moment has its special consideration. And I'll never forget the time that you swore me in as Vice President of the United States, the 44th Vice President of the United States.
Sandra Day O'Connor
I did get to. And that was in…
Dan Quayle
'89.
Sandra Day O'Connor
'89. January of '89.
Dan Quayle
January 20, at noon. And we had to go through a few hoops to get that cleared. Because normally, as you know, the protocol is for the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court to swear in both the President and the Vice President. And I talked to President Bush, and I said, "You know, Justice O'Connor and I have a lot of history and connection to the state of Arizona." But I went through the protocol and had the president's office and my office contact Justice Burger to make sure that it was not going to ruffle any feathers. You know how it is on the Court, you know, you got to make sure that things are done.
Sandra Day O'Connor
I know.
Dan Quayle
And you got serious protocol.
Sandra Day O'Connor
On both sides.
Dan Quayle
This is a very serious, this is a very serious moment. And they said, "Fine, it'd be great for Justice O'Connor." And I just want you to know, I was sort of nervous to do that oath, were you?
Sandra Day O'Connor
But it was special. Yes, I think so, too. You feel attention because you're up there in front of a vast crowd out on the Mall who's there to see the the ceremony of getting a new president sworn in, followed by the vice president. And so it was really special.
Dan Quayle
And the thing when you say, you know, "Put your hand on the Bible, raise your right hand and repeat after me." And then all of a sudden you had I don't know how many thousands of cameras, you hear that "Click, click, click, click, click." And I go, "This is it." And I was, it was great to be with a fellow Arizonan.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, it was special. And I felt very privileged to do that. Now did the time go fast as vice president?
Dan Quayle
Yeah. So looking back on it, you go, "Where"—
Sandra Day O'Connor
Where did it go?
Dan Quayle
"Where did those four years go?" I mean, we had young children at the time, you know, three young children. And I traveled to, like, 47 different countries in a four-year period of time.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Which is all the time, it seems like.
Dan Quayle
Yes, you're just, you're gone. Fortunately, you do have your plane and things like that.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Were any of those visits in other countries particularly memorable for you? Do you remember any that you thought mattered?
Dan Quayle
Oh, no, I think they're all very memorable. I've, obviously people who we dealt with most during the administration: Margaret Thatcher in Great Britain and then later on with John Major. Gorbachev, Yeltsin were both people that we dealt with quite a bit.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Do you remember meeting Gorbachev in Moscow?
Dan Quayle
No, I met him in Washington, DC.
Sandra Day O'Connor
In DC.
Dan Quayle
And he knew that I was a very strong proponent of the Strategic Defense Initiative, which he always referred to it as Star Wars.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Oh yes.
Dan Quayle
And at the dinner that the Russian Embassy had for the president, and me and Mrs. Bush and my wife. My wife had a pair of star earrings, big, big stars. And he looked over at her, and he looked at me, and he says, "You really do believe in Star Wars, don't you?" I just about fell out of my chair when he said that. But he was a, he was a very, you know, he did a lot for the world. I think, from a Russian historical point of view, I'm not sure how he's going to go down, because I think they believe that he's the one that sort of lost Russia.
Sandra Day O'Connor
I'm curious, too. He was here to give a speech in Phoenix, and it was amazing to hear him.
Dan Quayle
Well, he was a wonderful person. I was over in Moscow in 1993, I believe. 1993, '94 after I was out of office. And I got word at the hotel that Gorbachev wanted to see me. So I, you know, called up, I said I'll be glad to, you know, come over. He says, "Yeah, I'm at the," he had a library or something at the time. And just before I was getting ready to leave, or 30 minutes before, he makes an urgent phone call, because he's running for president this time. And he's like 1 or 2% in the polls. And he says, "Please bring a lot of cameras."
Sandra Day O'Connor
Oh my.
Dan Quayle
So it was my responsibility—
Sandra Day O'Connor
To get the cameras.
Dan Quayle
To get the Russian media there, I think two showed up.
Sandra Day O'Connor
How amazing.
Dan Quayle
He said, "Well, two is better than zero." He says, "They won't cover my campaign."
Sandra Day O'Connor
Oh my. That's amazing.
Dan Quayle
And he, you know, he was just total energy. And so he was all over the country, but he only got, I don't know, 4 or 5% of the vote because the media shut him out. And, but at last, there he wanted me to bring the cameras. But he was a good guy. He did, I think, a lot for the world. But as I said, from a Russian historical point of view, I think the Russian historians will not be very kind to him.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Perhaps not, but I think the world press will be.
Dan Quayle
No, I think that's true.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Because he made a difference. And he's a very intelligent-appearing man. Interesting. Now who else did you meet as Vice President, that you look back on and say, "Now that was really fascinating."
Dan Quayle
Well, you know, Helmut Kohl was, you know, very, very important to us. He was the Chancellor of Germany. And so was [French President Francois] Mitterand. Here's a funny story that you'll enjoy. We were over at the Winter Olympics representing the United States. And we got Mitterand, who at the time, President Miterrand was probably about 78 or 80. And we got him doing the wave at the Winter Olympics. And he had never seen this before, and it would come by and I was sitting next to him, I said, "Stand up," and, you know, he would stand up and do the wave.
Sandra Day O'Connor
That's great.
Dan Quayle
And he was a socialist, and now the French just elected another socialist. So it'll be very interesting to see where that country goes. But the one that really doesn't get as much credit as he deserves, in my view, is Chancellor Kohl. He, he's the one that was there during, when the Berlin Wall came down and Germany was reunited. And he had a very calm demeanor about him. And he was very, very concerned about Germany being viewed as too strong. I remember going to, this, actually at these Winter Olympics. I said, "Well, I'm sure you're rooting for your country, now that's it's united, to win all these gold medals." He says, "Of course I am. But I don't want to win too many because it's still a very sensitive issue about Germany being back together," and the Winter Olympics were in France.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Oh yes.
Dan Quayle
And of course there was always this tension between Kohl and Thatcher. Because, you know, we, Germany was so important to us, and we have this special relationship with Great Britain. I was part of the people that had to travel to tell Prime Minister Thatcher that we were thinking about reducing NATO troops.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Which would have been a concern to her.
Dan Quayle
Very much a concern to her. And I'll never forget, one time she says, "Well," she says, "Mr. Vice President, you know what the role of NATO is, don't you?" And I said, "Well yeah"—
Sandra Day O'Connor
I think so.
Dan Quayle
"I've served on the Senate Armed Services Committee, I've studied it, I understand it." And she says, "No, the real role." I said, "Madam Prime Minister, what is the real role of NATO?" She says, "Well, here's what it is. It is to keep the Russians out. Keep the Americans in. And keep the Germans down."
Sandra Day O'Connor
Oh my goodness.
Dan Quayle
And I said, "Well, that's very succinct." Very much to the point, very much like Margaret Thatcher.
Sandra Day O'Connor
That's amazing.
Dan Quayle
So actually, Bob Gates and Larry Eagleburger were the ones that had to go over and inform her the final cut. And I said, "Beware guys, this is not going to be pleasant."
Sandra Day O'Connor
And it wasn't.
Dan Quayle
It wasn't. But it was funny, they get back to the Oval Office and they debrief us. He says, "Well, Mr. President, Mr. Vice President, you're not gonna believe the opening words of Prime Minister Thatcher." And we said, "Okay, well what?" She says, "Okay, Tweedledee and Tweedledum, take your seats and tell me why you're going to reduce those troops."
Sandra Day O'Connor
Oh my goodness.
Dan Quayle
This was the opening of the session, to Bob Gates and Larry Eagleburger. And so we had a great, great laugh about that.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, she was an impressive figure.
Dan Quayle
Well you've met her.
Sandra Day O'Connor
I have. I was privileged to meet her several times and enjoyed it thoroughly, I must say.
Dan Quayle
You would enjoy each other's company. You're both very smart and very direct.
Sandra Day O'Connor
She was good. Now you actually lived as a youngster in Arizona a good part of that time, isn't that right?
Dan Quayle
I did. I grew up here, basically. I was here from like 1953 to 1964.
Sandra Day O'Connor
But you were born in Indiana.
Dan Quayle
Indiana, and then moved to Ohio, moved to northern Indiana, I was born in Indianapolis. Then we moved out here. And my first political experience—
Sandra Day O'Connor
Was what?
Dan Quayle
When I really cut my teeth on politics. In 1958, I would have been 11 at the time. And my mother was very active in politics. Yes. And she was a precinct committeewoman in the Republican Party.
Sandra Day O'Connor
So was I.
Dan Quayle
Okay, then you're gonna like, you're gonna enjoy this. Because in 1958 Barry Goldwater is running for reelection against Ernest MacFarland again. So she says, "We're going to go down to the Arizona State Fairgrounds and pass out Goldwater literature."
Sandra Day O'Connor
Oh my goodness.
Dan Quayle
And that was my first political experience is passing out Barry Goldwater literature.
Sandra Day O'Connor
That's interesting.
Dan Quayle
And then I had the honor of serving with Barry Goldwater on the Senate Armed Services Committee in the 1980s.
Sandra Day O'Connor
You served in the US Senate for how long?
Dan Quayle
I was in the Senate for eight years, and I was in the House of Representatives for four.
Sandra Day O'Connor
That's quite a background.
Dan Quayle
So a total of 12 years, and then four years as vice president.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Wasn't that a little more interesting to be in the Senate than the House?
Dan Quayle
Oh, yes. Because you have foreign policy, and you have appointments. And, you know, it's a, you know, you have 100 vs. 435, so you're doing four times as much work, basically. But no, Arizona and, you know, my grandfather [Eugene Pulliam] had the papers out here, the Arizona Republic and the Phoenix Gazette.
Sandra Day O'Connor
He was an amazing man.
Dan Quayle
He lived on Palo Cristi.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Exactly, and I lived a block away.
Dan Quayle
And I was gonna say, not far from your home. Do you remember his house?
Sandra Day O'Connor
I do. We would go past, we would drive up Palo Cristi Road, and it would be on the left as we went north.
Dan Quayle
And had the flagpole.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Absolutely.
Dan Quayle
He always had the flagpole.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Yes he did.
Dan Quayle
And my parents always had a flagpole. And we had to, one of the things when we were young, we had to learn, we always took the, put the flag up. Today they leave them up. But we didn't. We always had to put the flag up and take it down. And we learned at a very young age how to fold the flag in the evening. But my grandfather and my step-grandmother, they lived there for years. And I visited the house the other day, the people people that own it. And it really hasn't changed that much. Except they used to have a couple mules. They had mules at their house.
Sandra Day O'Connor
I can't imagine.
Dan Quayle
Nina Pulliam is a major contributor and supporter of the zoo. And so she had to have a couple of animals around. They had dogs in the house and mules outside.
Sandra Day O'Connor
It might have been easier to have a couple of desert tortoises or something.
Dan Quayle
I'm sure she probably had those, too.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Good. You really were right in the neighborhood, in a sense, with your grandparents.
Dan Quayle
Yeah, well, we lived on Desert Fairways Drive, which was Phoenix at the time. And my grandfather, my, I have two of my grandchildren were born here, which makes them fifth generation to be, to live in Arizona. Your roots go back.
Sandra Day O'Connor
My roots go back to a grandfather who came about 1890 and established the ranch over on the Arizona-New Mexico line.
Dan Quayle
So how many generations—
Sandra Day O'Connor
It was in the Gadsden Purchase. And you know, we bought land so the Southern Pacific, the US bought land from Mexico. It stopped, it used to stop along the Gila River. And we wanted to help the Southern Pacific put a rail line in from New Orleans to Los Angeles. And they needed that Gadsden Purchase for the rail line.
Dan Quayle
I'll be darned.
Sandra Day O'Connor
And that's how we got our roots there.
Dan Quayle
My grandfather moved out here in the mid to late '40s. And then my parents were out here. I've lived out here. All of our children live here, and now our grandchildren are here. So it's, Arizona is clearly home for us.
Sandra Day O'Connor
What were your major actions in the US Senate that you look back on and say, "Now that was productive," and what did you achieve?
Dan Quayle
Probably two things. If you remember the old CETA law, it was the Employment Training Act. It was basically a boondoggle, to some extent, for mayors and the local officials. And it expired in 1982. And I wrote the Job Training Partnership Act. I was the Chairman of the Employment Subcommittee. And I was fortunate enough to convince Ted Kennedy to join me as my co-sponsor.
Sandra Day O'Connor
See, that helps to have somebody prominent from each party.
Dan Quayle
From each party. And we worked it out, and we fought like cats and dogs. And, but once he gave me his word, he always stayed with it. And we had to go to the conference with the House and the Hawkins-Humphrey legislation. He was the chairman of that, and he wanted to do a different thing. But both times, the Job Training Partnership Act passed, like, 92 to zero. People said, "If Kennedy and Quayle get along on this, there's no room for dissent."
Sandra Day O'Connor
It's gotta be alright. That's good.
Dan Quayle
And we're very, both of us were very proud of that. The other thing that, sort of under the radar, was GPS. In the early 1980s, GPS was manufactured by a small company called Magnavox.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Now what's GPS?
Dan Quayle
It's the Global Positioning System. In your cars, everybody uses GPS.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Right, we all have GPS devices.
Dan Quayle
The military, all the…but, the commercial application on GPS. So they said, "This is very important for the military and the military applications." So this would have been, like, 1981, 1982. So I was on the Senate Armed Services Committee. They were, it was almost called an earmark, if you will, because I was pushing this thing for my constituents. But we had hearings on it, and we got in huge fights on who, nobody wanted to pay for it. The Air Force didn't want to pay for it.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Was it pretty expensive?
Dan Quayle
It was. It was new, and it was R&D, and the Air Force said, "Oh, yeah, well I think we could use it, but let the Army pay for it." The Army said, "No, this is more of an Air Force thing,"
Sandra Day O'Connor
Let the Air Force pay.
Dan Quayle
And the Navy, who had the biggest budget, they said, "Oh no, let these other guys do it." And the Marines obviously couldn't pay for it. So finally, John Tower and I and a couple guys from the House, we just crammed it in the budget. And we were trying to say how important this would be. What we failed to appreciate and estimate was the commercial application. Because we were doing all for the military.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Ah. And yet it's totally popular across the country. Everybody has one.
Dan Quayle
Oh, everybody uses it today. You look at GPS today and go back in the Senate records, in the Senate Armed Services Committee is where it really started. And we had these huge fights on how who was going to pay for it. Now there is a good investment of dollars. And, quite frankly, today would probably be called a modest earmark.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Indeed.
Dan Quayle
Back then, I was fighting for my constituency. That's the reason I was aware of it. And we prevailed, but we totally underestimated the commercial application of this.
Sandra Day O'Connor
That's amazing. Now, as you look back at the vice presidency, do any events stand out to you now as memorable for you in some particular way?
Dan Quayle
Well, you know, Desert Storm. You know, leading up to it. And I went over and visited the troops for New Year's, the President went over for Christmas. I went over for New Year's. I remember, and I've got great photos of this, of playing volleyball with the troops over there. And this would have been January 1, 2, 3. And of course, we, you know, went in on January 15. And so the whole lead-up to that. And I couldn't, you know, we all, many people thought, "Well, you know, Saddam Hussein, he's not dumb. Surely he's going to have some sort of withdrawal at some point." And I remember talking with Dan Rather at a CBS luncheon one time. And he says, "You know what Saddam's gonna do?" I said, "What's that, Dan?" "Is he's going to move back to those two little islands that have oil there, and then he's going to call it a day."
Sandra Day O'Connor
And?
Dan Quayle
And of course, we, you know, had done that, we had worked that problem, because we thought he might do that.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Yes, exactly.
Dan Quayle
And our response was going to be very firm that that wasn't enough. And I just said, "Well, our position is total withdrawal, including those islands." But had he done that, even though we had drawn the line, you never know exactly, you don't know exactly what the decision would be. But I am convinced that he watched that battle in the Senate on the debate on whether we should go in or not. And people forget this. The Senate, it was a very close vote on whether they were going to give approval for the President to make the decision to go into Desert Storm.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Yes.
Dan Quayle
It was 52 to 48. We had people, Sam Nunn voted against it. Daniel Patrick Moynihan voted against it. Robert Byrd voted against it. George Mitchell voted against it. We had the leadership basically opposed to us. And we got 10 Democrats, and then we lost a few Republicans. Chuck Grassley was one of them.
Sandra Day O'Connor
So that was very close.
Dan Quayle
It was very close, I was in the chair thinking that it could be a tie vote. And actually, Al Gore was one of the last ones to make up his mind.
Sandra Day O'Connor
And how did he vote?
Dan Quayle
He, I was told that he was going to vote with us. So he gets up there and he makes this speech. He starts out just raising Cain with the president and, you know, rushing to war and all this. So I sent somebody to go get [Senate Minority Leader Bob] Dole. I said, "Tell Dole to come up here." So Dole comes up, and I said, "Are you listening to this speech? You told me Gore is going to vote with us." He says, "He is." I said, "Have you listened to the speech?" And Dole says, "Don't worry about it. He's gonna vote with us."
Sandra Day O'Connor
And did he?
Dan Quayle
And he did. But if you listen to the speech, you wouldn't have, you know, thought about it.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Did he make some corrective statements first?
Dan Quayle
No, he just went off. And then, finally he came down and he said, "The bottom line, I gotta give the benefit of the doubt to the President," which was our, you know, pitch all along. But you once you listen to it, you go, "My gosh." And I think that was actually one of the reasons that he was put on that [presidential] ticket [with Bill Clinton in 1992]. Had he voted the other way, Clinton might not have put him on the ticket.
Sandra Day O'Connor
That's very interesting. Well, you look back on a life of major public service in this country. I mean, you served in the House, in the Senate and as Vice President. That's quite a record. I hope you're proud about that.
Dan Quayle
Yes, I'm very proud of it. A lot of people said, "Were you the youngest vice president?" I said, "No, I was the third-youngest."
Sandra Day O'Connor
Third-youngest. How old were you when you became vice president?
Dan Quayle
I was 41.
I was 29 when I was elected to the Congress and 33 when I was elected to the Senate. 41, and the two people that were younger were Richard Nixon, 39.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Oh. My goodness.
Dan Quayle
And Teddy Roosevelt, 39.
Sandra Day O'Connor
How interesting.
Dan Quayle
So I was the youngest, or the third-youngest vice president.
Sandra Day O'Connor
So looking back, what was most helpful for Arizona all those years, do you think? Did you work on the Central Arizona Project?
Dan Quayle
I always voted with Goldwater, with the Arizona delegation on that. And I would usually catch unshirted heck from a lot of my farmers and constituents back in Indiana: "Why are you voting for these subsidies out in Arizona?" I said, "Well, let me just tell you something."
Sandra Day O'Connor
They really mattered in Arizona.
Dan Quayle
I said, "I grew up out there." I said, "The state needs that." And so all those government programs, I, coming from Indiana, I was one of the few Midwestern senators that would vote with the Arizona and the western delegation. And a lot of those votes were fairly close.
Sandra Day O'Connor
I'm sure.
Dan Quayle
And my colleague, many times, would vote against, vote the other way—my Indiana colleague would vote the other way. And a lot of my constituents couldn't understand it. I said, "Look, I've got a really history of Arizona. This is good for the country. It's good, obviously, for the state of Arizona, but we can't turn our backs on them."
My grandfather was publisher of the newspaper, and he was a big, you know, Republican—
Sandra Day O'Connor
Eugene Pulliam.
Dan Quayle
Eugene Pulliam. He always supported Carl Hayden editorially. And I said, "Grandpa," I said, you know, "What…?"
Sandra Day O'Connor
But he was an institution.
Dan Quayle
He said, "Arizona has to have Carl Hayden, because he's the chairman of the appropriations committee." He says, "Carl Hayden is so important Arizona," he said, "I've got to endorse him. I said, "He doesn't agree with you on a lot of things." He says, "But I, and the newspapers, always endorse Carl Hayden."
Sandra Day O'Connor
Interesting. Well now, politics must run thick in your family blood, because you have a son who's now serving in Congress, isn't that right?
Dan Quayle
Oh yes, Ben just got elected to the Congress. And he's doing a great job, enjoying it. And he was 33 when he got elected. And so he's young, but he's, not young by a lot of standards.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Well it must be in the blood.
Dan Quayle
But I'm so thrilled that he's there, and he's doing a lot of work. I hope he sticks with it, because it's a tougher job today, Sandra. It's not the same. There was that spirit of bipartisanship, reaching across the aisle, we did that all the time and didn't think anything about it. But today it's much more polarizing.
Sandra Day O'Connor
It seems to be, and I'm sorry to see that. I like it when there can be some cross-currents and getting along on both sides occasionally.
Dan Quayle
It's so important. It really is.
Sandra Day O'Connor
One other question, if I may. We're coming up soon, with another national election. And how important is it that every voter exercise the voter's right to vote when an election comes? We see more and more people not voting. How important is it, what we do?
Dan Quayle
And I think that part of the reason that they don't, voters, is they don't think it makes a difference. A lot of times they say, "Well, you know, it doesn't matter who we elect as President." It does matter. "It doesn't matter who's the mayor." It does matter. And I think it was Edmund Burke that said, "For evil to triumph, let good people do nothing." And we need good people in elective office and politics on both sides of the aisle. And people need to take that responsibility seriously. And you look at these countries that are new in democracy, their turnout rate is 80, 90%.
Sandra Day O'Connor
I know it, they get everybody out. And we don't.
Dan Quayle
And we have about, in a general election, presidential election, you get around 40%,
Sandra Day O'Connor
Which is shocking.
Dan Quayle
And in an off year [less] of all. And people don't even take time to register. And it's not, you know, instant registration and, you know, extending the voting, you know, for 30 days. That has very minimal impact. It's that people really are very apathetic when it comes to voting. And that's—
Sandra Day O'Connor
So what can we do about it?
Dan Quayle
And you know who's the worst offenders are the young people.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Are they?
Dan Quayle
Yes, percentage-wise. That's the 18 to 25, they have the lowest participation of any age group. And they have the most to gain or to lose by their representation.
Sandra Day O'Connor
They do.
Dan Quayle
So it just needs to be said over and over again.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Hammered home.
Dan Quayle
On shows like this, in the schools, and, you know, even places of worship, to say, "Vote. Participate. This is your country. You have an obligation and responsibility to be a voter and a participant."
Sandra Day O'Connor
I totally agree. Thank you so much for talking to me. It really is so special for people in this state to get to see you and hear you and hear about—you're the only Arizonan to be vice president, are you not?
Dan Quayle
Yes, I am. And you made it all happen when you swore me in.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Well absolutely.
Dan Quayle
Don't forget that, take credit for that.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Oh I do. I do.
Thank you.
Dan Quayle
Thank you.
Sandra Day O'Connor
Thank you very much.