Unknown Speaker
Thank you for joining us today I'm just honored to be sitting across from you interviewing you and to have you here with us.
Sandra Day O'Connor
You're welcome. And I'm glad to be here.
Unknown Speaker
Most people already know that you paved the way for women by being the first woman on point to the US Supreme Court. But I think fewer people know that you also pave the way in Arizona by being the first woman, majority leader in any state senate. Right. In fact, there
Sandra Day O'Connor
there had been no woman, legislative leader in any post in across the country. And it was such a surprise to me when my colleagues voted in a closed ballot to select me as the majority leader. I was shocked. But it was a wonderful experience. I learned a lot.
Unknown Speaker
What would you say were some of the challenges that might have came along
Sandra Day O'Connor
with? Well, the challenges in those days was that it's a small state Senate, they're 32 members. And I was a Republican, and the republicans held a majority of one. So it was very challenging to work with that very narrow majority in the Republican Party. And what it meant was that for many pieces of legislation, in order to pass anything, we had to have support from the other side of the aisle. Luckily, it was a time in Arizona, when I don't think the political feelings were as partisan as they seem to be at times today. And there were many says, When legislators from both parties would work together on legislation for the state. And so I was fortunate, I think, to be in the legislature at that time. Now, I'm in their issues that are essentially partisan issues, and you don't get cooperation from the other side. But fortunately, when I was serving on most pieces of legislation, there were divided votes.
Unknown Speaker
Okay. And would you say there were any challenges in particular that, along with your leadership posts that stemmed from being a woman?
Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, one of my projects, when I was in the legislature, was to go through every one of Arizona's statutes everyone, and look at the ones that appeared, at least as written to discriminate against women, and to get them changed. And that was quite a challenge. There were a lot of statutes. Arizona is a community property state. We got our laws on community property and many of our water laws from Spain. I don't know how many people realize that. But it's a part of our ancient Spanish heritage from the early Spaniards who came here. And in the community property laws, at the time I was in the legislature, all the control and management were given to the husband, not the wife, the wife was entitled half of the value, but had no control over it. And it was the husband who had the right to sell a property or to acquire it, whatever it was. And so we were able to get that change to give the wife an equal voice in those decisions. And that was a major change.
There were many other laws affecting women's working hours, and weightlifting requirements and so on, many of which had to be changed as well. But that was a big project. And the other project that I remember working on, was to try to improve the situation for retarded people. We had center for retarded people in central Arizona, and the laws concerning how people were adjudicated retarded and sent there and kept there needed some review and some change. And we were able to do that as well.
And I was able, with considerable effort to get a proposition on the ballot to change Arizona system of selection of judges. Arizona, as originally formed, had partisan election of all of its judges, both at the supreme court level and later in an intermediate appellate court was formed at that level, as well as at the trial court level. They were elected in partisan elections. And it was my hope that we could move to a system of initial appointment of the appellate court judges and the judges in Maricopa County, by the governor, from a list of qualified people of both parties supplied by a bipartisan commission that had lay people as well as lawyers on it and presided over by the Chief Justice. And I could never get that. It required a constitutional change for Arizona's constitution. And I could get the proposed change out of the State Senate, where I served but not out of the House of Representatives. So we formed a statewide committee. And the committee was able to get enough signatures of registered voters in Arizona, to put it on the ballot by initiative. And the same year that I decided I had served long enough in the State Senate, and that I would like very much to serve as a judge in Arizona, I ran for the Office of superior court judge in the same election where the ballot proposition I had worked so hard on was on the ballot. And happily, I was elected as a judge and the constitutional change was approved by the voters.
Now I've lived in Arizona long enough after that change to see how nicely it worked. I think today, Arizona probably has close to the best judicial system of any state in the United States. It's really first rate, and we've been the beneficiary of big change.
Unknown Speaker
Can you talk a little bit also about your appointment to the US Supreme Court?
Sandra Day O'Connor
That came later, I had, before I do that, it probably bears saying that I was very privileged in the years that I lived in the Phoenix area to serve in all three branches of Arizona state government. My first job was right here in this building, the old State Capitol, in the Office of the Attorney General. I was hired by a man named Darrell Smith, who then was the Attorney General of Arizona, and was made a deputy. Now there weren't any women in the attorney general's office in those days, at least as Assistant Attorney General. And they weren't too sure what to do with me. So I was sent out to a little office in the Arizona State Hospital for the mentally ill, it's out on Van Buren at 24th Street. And I wasn't entirely sure what I should do out there. But what I did was to have meetings with all the medical staff, doctors and the nurses, and meetings with the board of the state hospital, there was a citizen board for a spittle. And then I met with representatives of many of the patients of hospital to see what their legal needs were.
And it turned out that Arizona was, it was a time when people were committed to the Arizona State Hospital as being mentally ill. And they were simply taken from their homes and jobs and put them the hospital involuntarily by judicial order. And it was a time when doctors had developed certain medical treatments, certain drug free, what's that could help for someone with schizophrenia, for example, or other conditions. And there were a number of patients in the hospital, who if they were on the proper medication, were clear enough in their minds that they could function outside the hospital. And yet they were required to be committed because they had been found to be mentally ill, and there was no way to be released while they were on medication. So we worked on a change in the statutes in Arizona, to enable the release of patients who were able to maintain themselves on the proper medication and function outside now was a huge change and a very helpful thing. And there were a number of other changes that helped the state hospital.
So after perhaps less than a year, I returned to the main Office of the Attorney General's office. And then I was able to do legal work at times for the governor, for the legislature, for the state auditor and the state treasurer, and all kinds of state boards and commissions. And it was a wonderful job I really enjoyed so much. That time that I served in the attorney general's office. I remember that I was even privileged to argue a cup of case a couple of cases at that time here in this very room in the old Supreme Court chamber before the Arizona Supreme Court. And that was of course, exciting to be able to do. And I valued so much the time that I spent in the attorney general's office, it was wonderful.
And while I was serving in the attorney general's office, there was a vacancy in the legislative district in which moved, and I had been active as a district Chairman, for the republicans in my district and was acquainted with people in the legislature, I was appointed to fill that vacancy that had occurred. And the appointment in those days was made by the county board of supervisors. I don't know if that's still a law or not. But I was appointed as a state senator by the county board of supervisors to fill a vacancy. And I served immediately on the state county Municipal Affairs Committee and on the Judiciary Committee, and I was made Chairman, rather soon, of the state county and municipal Affairs Committee, which I enjoyed a lot. I've done so much work in the attorney general's office in that area, that it was most enjoyable to get to work on the legislative committee.
Then I had to run for office in my district, and was elected for my first full term. And then I ran again for a second full term. And that was when I was selected as Majority Leader. And that would kept me very busy. Indeed, year round. There's so many things that had to be attended to.
Unknown Speaker
And then seems like you only got busier after that well,
Sandra Day O'Connor
in I was, as I mentioned, elected to the trial court to the Superior Court in Maricopa County. And that was a complete change of roles because as a legislator, you can decide what issues you want to work on. And you can develop yourself legislative proposals. And you can go out to the public and talk to women get their ideas about what ought to be done. As a judge, you don't have any choice about what comes across your desk. You have to take the cases assigned to you as a judge, whether you like them or not. And you have to resolve them in your capacity as a trial judge.
And sitting as a trial judge, I've often said is a little like watching a soap opera all day every day. Because you hear so many different stories, you preside over trials. Some of them are arise out of auto accidents or other accidents, summer suits about contracts, summer criminal cases. And you hear these stories developed through the testimony of witnesses. And some of what you hear makes you very sad, but you can't cry. Some of the make you want to laugh but you can't laugh. And you hear all these amazing things stories day in and day out. It was very interesting work and kept me very busy. I often had two or more jury's out deciding cases. While I was trying another case in the courtroom. It was very, very busy. When they say sit on the bench. They really mean it. You never have enough time to do anything else.
Unknown Speaker
In your book, Lazy B, you you recount several stories from your childhood as a cowgirl living on a ranch in the southwest. How would you you say your childhood experiences prepared you for your leadership roles later in life.
Sandra Day O'Connor
I was fortunate I think as a youngster, my parents were operating a ranch that had been started by my grandfather day. That is half in Greenlee County, Arizona, along the Gila River, and half in Hidalgo County, New Mexico. The house was actually physically in Arizona, so we were Arizona residents. And that ranch was in a very remote area. We were between two small towns, Duncan, Arizona, and Lordsburg, New Mexico. And we were far enough from town that we would only go to town once a week to get the mail and to buy some groceries. And other than that we were out on the ranch trying to do the ranch work. I think any youngster who's lucky enough to grow up on a ranch or a farm in a remote area has the experience I did you have to help do the work on the ranch. We had jobs to do things to do. And you were given a certain amount of responsibility at an early age to get things done. And nobody cared if you were a young girl. Whenever you were as as long as you could do the job, people would let you do it, and they liked it. So that was how I grew up. And I think it's a very healthy thing. It probably teaches a youngster a considerable amount of independence, and probably a little self confidence. As you learn how to do things and take care of things was a good experience.
Unknown Speaker
And during your post on the US Supreme Court, were there anytime as you look back to your childhood and drew from your experiences, then I don't know, help you overcome challenges.
Sandra Day O'Connor
I think that everyone whatever they do is a product of those years as a young person growing up in whatever environment, it happened. We're all shaped by those early experiences. And I'm sure that I was very much so shaped by my life and work on the lazy be ranch.
Unknown Speaker
What would you hope young Arizonans and young Americans learn from you learn from your accomplishments? Well, I
Sandra Day O'Connor
think the main thing that happened as a result of my life and experience was when President Reagan decided to put a woman on the US Supreme Court in the highest position that any woman in this country had achieved. And that opened doors for women all across this country immediately. And it opened doors for women worldwide actually. It received an enormous amount of attention worldwide. And all of a sudden, opportunities started to emerge for women in every state and around the globe.
And it was such a thrill for me to see that happen. We began to have women on state supreme courts and appellate courts almost immediately and in almost every state. And that was just a marvelous thing for me to see. And it opened opportunities for women and other fields, not just judicial. Arizona, indeed, has a tradition of women on the bench. The first woman to become a state Supreme Court Chief Justice was an Arizona woman, Lorna Lockwood, who sat and presided in this very room.
Unknown Speaker
And what are some of the things you learned from Lorna Lockwood?
Sandra Day O'Connor
She was a wonderful person. And when I first came to back Phoenix, after my husband got out of the service, it was in 1957. There were not many women lawyers in Phoenix or anyplace else in those days, the law firms and Arizona were not hiring women lawyers, they still wouldn't take them. But I would get together maybe once a month or so with the women lawyers who were in fact, in the Phoenix area. And if she could, Justice Lorna Lockwood [of the Arizona Supreme Court] would come and join us for lunch. And we often would sit around one small round table in the Arizona Club and have lunch. There were so few of us that we could do that. It was amazing. But Justice Lockwood took a real interest in the women lawyers to be helpful in any way she could. That was good.
Unknown Speaker
What would you hope that young Americans and not just young Americans, Americans of all ages are mindful of during Women's History Month, and then all year long?
Sandra Day O'Connor
Of course, in Women's History Month, it's a good idea to look back and see how relatively recently women in this country got the right to vote. 1920, too. I mean, they didn't have the right to vote, which is amazing, at a national level. A couple of the states had granted state voting rights to women, but that was rare. And the whole evolution of women in the workplace and with political rights, and the right to vote, was a product of the last half of the 1800s. And I just feel so privileged and fortunate that I grew up at a time when opportunities for women were changing. And today, I think young women can find work in any business or profession they choose. And what a blessing that is, because at least half of our population are women. And they have as much talent as men. So it's great that we don't waste that talent anymore.
Unknown Speaker
As a woman attorney, could you describe what it was like trying to get a job right after college?
Sandra Day O'Connor
I graduated from Stanford Law School in 1952. And that's a long time ago. But that was the year of my law school graduation. There were notices on the placement bulletin board at the law school from law firms all over the state of California. I graduated from law school at Stanford Law School in Palo Alto, California. And the placement board, had all these notices asking Stanford Law graduates to call a law firm for an interview about our job, saying that they would be very interested in hiring a Stanford Law graduate, and I called the law firms, and not one of them would talk to me, wouldn't even talk to me. They said, well, you're a woman. We don't hire women lawyers.
And I think I had been very naive when I went to law school, because I didn't realize that when I graduated from law school, that a law firm wouldn't consider me for a job. I was stunned. And I'd had a very good record in law school, good grades, order of the coin, Law Review, so on, and they wouldn't talk to me, I finally asked a young woman, friend of mine from undergraduate days at Stanford, if she would talk to her father, her father was a senior partner in one of California big law firms. I said, would you ask your father if he could get me an interview? And she said, Yes, I'll ask. And she did. And her father arranged for me to have an interview at the law firm. It was headquartered in Los Angeles.
So I made a trip to Los Angeles, and met with the senior partner. And he looked at my resume, and he said, well Miss Day, you have a very fine record and law school, congratulations. But our firm has never hired a woman lawyer. And Miss Day, I do not see the time when we will. Our clients would not accept that. He said, and Miss Day, how do you type? And I said, well, fair, I'm not the best, but fair. He said, "If you can type well enough, I might be able to get you a job here as a legal secretary." And I said, "Thank you, but I wanted to work as a lawyer, not as a legal secretary." So I declined that potential offer and continued my search.
I had met my husband-to-be, John, in the fall in law school at Stanford. We were planning to be married. And he was a year behind me and still was in school. So one of us had to work. And that was me. And I wanted to work as a lawyer. I heard that the district attorney in San Mateo County, California, had once had a woman lawyer on his staff. So I made an appoint went to go see him, in hopes that he would consider another one. And we had a wonderful visit. He was an elected district attorney. And a very pleasant man. He was an Italian American. And he looked at my resume and said, Oh, Miss day, you have a wonderful resume, it would be great to have you here. But he said, I get financial support from the county board of supervisors. And I am not budgeted, I have no money to hire another deputy right now. And so I don't know how I could hire you. And he said, I have shown you around my office. And you can see I don't have a vacant office either. So I don't know where I would put another deputy.
And so I suggested to the district attorney, that I had met his secretary who was a very nice woman in a pretty large space. And I said, if your secretary wouldn't mind, I'd be willing to put a desk in her office where she is and sit with her. And I said, "I know you don't have any money to hire anyone, but I'd be happy to work for you for nothing for a while until you get the district, the board of supervisors to give you a little additional money to hire me." And that's what we did. That was the deal. We struck no pay and sitting with his secretary.
Unknown Speaker
How long did you work for nothing?
Sandra Day O'Connor
I think I had been there probably about three months when it turned out that the district attorney was appointed county judge. So he was happy about that, he left to be the county judge. My supervisor became the district attorney, and that created a bona fide vacancy in the office, which I filled with pay and with an office.
Unknown Speaker
Well, it's definitely been an honor for me to interview you today. I'm so glad you could, thank you.
Sandra Day O'Connor
I enjoyed doing it and good luck to you. Thank you.