Cokie Roberts
O'Connor became the first woman to sit on the bench of the United States Supreme Court making women's history and becoming a role model to millions of women and girls. So Justice O'Connor is no longer on the Supreme Court. She's still keeping very busy. I recently spoke with her about what she's doing now, as well as what it's like to be a pioneer.
Just a sec honor for us ladies of a certain age who were so excited when you were nominated for the court. It is impossible to believe that it's 30 years ago, it's been a long time. Can you tell us the story? What was it like when you found out?
Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, it was a shock. I mean, who would think for a moment that some cowgirl from southeast Arizona would be asked to serve on the Supreme Court? It was a shock.
Cokie Roberts
That's how you see yourself? a cowgirl. That's what
Sandra Day O'Connor
it was. I mean, I had a little education along the way. So I hope I learned something in the process. But I never expected to be asked to serve on the Supreme Court. I was very honored. I wasn't sure I should do it. I had never argued a case the court I had not been a law clerk of the court. Did the President himself call you? He did. My phone rang, and it was ronald reagan on the phone. And he said, Sandra, I'd like to announce your nomination for the court tomorrow. And frankly, my heart sank. Really? Yes. It really did. Because I was not at all sure that I could do the job well enough. I didn't know if I could. I told my husband and he said, Oh, that's ridiculous. Of course you can. And he was more certain and and those than I was,
Cokie Roberts
so then you came to Washington, and I did. Do you think they treated you differently because you were a woman?
Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, they were very curious to meet me. Those who didn't know me. So number one, they were curious. Number two, they weren't sure. And number three, Three women are half of our voting population, aren't they? And I think there was a certain hesitation on the part of elected officials to say, Oh, we can't have a woman. They didn't want to do that, because they didn't know what effect that would have on voters.
Cokie Roberts
So you think that in some ways, they treated you a little bit with kid gloves. You're saying because
Sandra Day O'Connor
I think a little bit I don't know if I'm accurate on that. But that's the sense
Cokie Roberts
I have. Do you think that that's still true? Do you think that no, I think, Oh, my goodness.
Sandra Day O'Connor
I sat in a courtroom before the summer a German and I looked up at the bench. There were three women on maximum credible. Did that make you happy? Well, it certainly did. I didn't think I'd see it in my lifetime. But do you think that they still need to be more qualified? No, I wouldn't say more. But are you a woman as I came along, had to be pretty well qualified or she wouldn't be considered for anything. When you talk about being law school classmates with Justice Rehnquist in the quiz, he ended up number one in the class and you were number three in the law school kept no record of how we were ranked. They know what our grades were, they can go look at the grades, but then you couldn't get a job in law firm and he could easily know it was a strange story at Stanford's bulletin board for students. It was full of little notices from law firms all over California saying Stanford Law graduates call us we want to talk to you about work. There must have been close to 40. If I called every single number on the bulletin board. I could not get a single interview. I knew girl my age at Stanford, not in the law school. But her father was a partner at one of big California firms. He got me an interview a headquarters was in Los Angeles. I made the trip down and he looked at my resume always stay who have a fine record last But he said mistake, this firm has never hired a woman lawyer. I don't see the day when we will. Our clients wouldn't stand for. And I was very disappointed as he could see. And he said wellness day, maybe I could get you on here as a legal secretary. Would you like to talk to us about that? And I said, No, thank you. So that ended that. pursuit.
Cokie Roberts
Did that experience. Make a difference in your view of the law?
Sandra Day O'Connor
Probably. I don't know. I didn't come away as a big campaigner for women's issues. I just wanted to see improvement. I wanted it for myself. I wanted it for others in my shoes, but I didn't become some wild I advocate. You talk about the group of nine you know, it's a very smart, yes. And then another woman was appointed Justice Ginsburg. Finally, it was close to 10 years. Is that right? Yeah. And you became close. We're sure we liked each other. It was nice to have another woman on the court. You made the point that when you came on the court, it was divided for four. Oh, it was on many cases, the fact that they were so evenly divided and on some areas, right and predictable, frankly, on a lot of areas, and you were not predictable. Was that because you're just practical? Probably. Yeah, I grew up on a ranch, you know. And I'm sure that affected me because anybody growing up on a ranch or a farm in a situation like that, you have to make things work. You have to make things run. You retired because your husband was sick? Yes, he had all simers. That was a very hard thing to do. It was terrible. Well, it's just heartbreaking. I think john began to have some evidence. For as long as 17 years really Yes, but it was slow progressing, and he was able to function fairly well for a long time. And he reached the point where he no longer could take a metro or a bus or get himself around two of our three sons and their families live in the Phoenix area. I thought if he were at a place there, they could go visit him often. And that I should get off court and locate at least a good part of the time in Arizona so that we could all take care of a mirror. That's what we did.
Cokie Roberts
Do you think a man would do that? I hope so. It was a very hard thing to do. Well,
Sandra Day O'Connor
it wasn't hard at all. There was no doubt in my mind about doing it. We've been we were married 57 years. And Jonathan wonderful, just wonderful. And he had to give up his whole law practice in 81 when I was put on the court because his firm didn't have a Washington office, he had to give up everything and come here with me and start a new life go with a different firm. That wasn't easy for him at that age, but never a complaint. Never. Oh, why did you do that? Oh, I wish he was totally supportive the whole time. He couldn't have been nicer.
Cokie Roberts
You talked about the work that you've done with schools. And I, I'd like you to talk a little bit about the work you've done since you've retired.
Sandra Day O'Connor
The public is not sufficiently well educated about the role of a judge the role of a court the court is about to hear an important case about a student's rights in school. I thought it might help to set up a website focused on middle schoolers and see what we could do. We have a number of games on there and they're fun. The young people get on it's designed for that grade level up to high school, and they just have a really good time and in the process they're learning. We've had a test to see how much they know And that's remarkable.
Cokie Roberts
So is this a good a good time of life?
Sandra Day O'Connor
Well, it's not good to be without my husband, john. He was just dear. And that's sad. And I probably will never stop thinking how sad that is. But it's alright to be away from the court. I was here 25 years. That's a long time. And what I am doing now is trying to teach young people by this website I have, and I think that's very worthwhile. And I also am sitting on the Courts of Appeal. And that's all right to have a voice in some panels in different circuits and that's fine.